How To Protect Retirement Money From Market Volatility

Retirement is a whole new ballgame when it comes to managing your finances... So how do you protect your retirement money from market volatility without making costly mistakes? In this podcast episode, Josh, Austin, Tony, and Jordan break down what volatility really means, why retirees tend to view their money differently, and the four most dangerous words in investing: “This time is different.” 

For the full transcript, links, and show notes, visit thewealthmindsetshow.com/s2e5

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Chapters

• 0:44 What Does Market Volatility Really Mean?
• 2:51 Why Do Retirees Look at Market Volatility Differently?
• 5:12 What is Sequence of Returns Risk?
• 9:05 What NOT To Do When You Experience Market Volatility Near Retirement
• 12:34 What SHOULD Pre-Retirees & Retirees Do Going into Retirement?
• 16:58 How Much Cash Should Retirees Have on Hand?
• 20:38 The Ideal Withdrawal Strategy
• 24:30 Why Having a Financial Advisors Is So Important

Transcript

You're listening to The Wealth Mindset Show, where Hixon Zuercher Capital Management's team of finance professionals, portfolio managers, and a life coach come together to tackle complex topics in finance and retirement planning so you don't have to. From investment strategies and wealth management, to tax planning, retirement income, and aligning your money with your values and purpose, The Wealth Mindset Show offers the tools to thrive.

Austin Wilson:

All right. Hey, hey, hey. Welcome to The Wealth Mindset Show, where our Hixon Zuercher team will have conversations on managing wealth, navigating retirement, and making smart decisions for a secure, meaningful future. I'm Austin Wilson, Director of Investments at Hixon Zuercher Capital Management.

Josh Robb:

I'm Josh Robb, Director of Wealth Management at Hixon Zuercher Capital Management. Today we got two people joining us. We have Tony Hixon and we have Jordan Shaw here, both of which have been on our show before, but I'll give them a chance just to real briefly reintroduce themselves and then we're going to get right into our topic.

Tony Hixon:

Jordan.

Josh Robb:

Tony?

Tony Hixon:

No. You got to let the new guy go first.

Josh Robb:

All right.

Jordan Shaw:

Real brief. I'm Jordan.

Josh Robb:

And Tony.

Tony Hixon:

And I'm Tony. And Josh, go.

[0:44] - What Does Market Volatility Really Mean?

Josh Robb:

All right. So, today we are talking about protecting retirement money from market volatility. So really, what we're looking at here is specifically people heading into retirement or into retirement, they tend to view that money differently than while they're working and saving. So, how can they best protect it from market volatility? But also, I'm going to start with this. What's volatility?

Austin Wilson:

Okay. I have some thoughts about this.

Josh Robb:

Yes.

Austin Wilson:

As you may expect. But volatility is really big, large moves in things. And the way that you can think about volatility when it comes to your investments is it's inevitable, for one, if it's not a risk-free asset, and it's the price you pay for getting a return above the risk-free asset. When I'm talking about the risk-free asset, I'm talking about, essentially, really short-term treasury bills, cash, essentially, money market funds. Anything above that is going to have some level of volatility associated to it because there's some risk to it. And the more risk you take, the more your return is going to be over the long term, but more, in the short term, you have the opportunity for things to go up or down really wildly.

Josh Robb:

And that's important, because volatility is movement. It's not a directional in that the word volatility is not a bad thing.

Austin Wilson:

Correct.

Josh Robb:

Volatility itself is movement of an investment in this case at what we're talking about up and down. And so, when I say this has a lot of volatility, it means it goes both directions more so than something else we're comparing against.

Austin Wilson:

And that's actually one thing when you think about... Stocks are, obviously, associated for having high volatility. Bonds, less so. There's still some volatility, right? But it goes both way, to that point, of, yeah, no one complains about volatility when their portfolio goes up 30% a year, which does happen.

Josh Robb:

Yeah.

Austin Wilson:

That's volatility, though.

Josh Robb:

Yes.

Austin Wilson:

And it's also volatility when your portfolio goes down 30% in a year. And bonds also have moves, both positively and negatively, and they're just much less magnitude. So, you may have a good bond here that's up five.

Josh Robb:

Yes.

Austin Wilson:

And you may have a bad bond year and you're like, "Oh, my goodness. I'm down five." Until 2022. But that's beside the point.

[2:51] - Why Do Retirees Look at Market Volatility Differently?

Josh Robb:

Yeah. All right. Now we understand volatility. Why, first... And Jordan, maybe you and I and Tony, from an advisor standpoint, why do retirees look at this differently?

Jordan Shaw:

Yeah. Well, I think this is largely a matter of how you feel in retirement. Your portfolio goes from something that maybe you just continue to put money towards and you check it every now and then, to suddenly it's a source of income and it's providing for your needs in a large part. And also, it feels like it shouldn't happen when you do need it. Because you haven't been watching it so much, you don't realize that it not only should happen because it's normal, but it's so routine that you're not paying attention to it.

But when you're afraid of something like volatility in retirement, because it's providing for you, you're looking for it often, so you're going to see it more. When you're afraid of something, you see something often, you see it all the time when you're checking. I think that's a big part of it. It's not only feeling like it shouldn't happen, but it's something that you're constantly looking for too.

Josh Robb:

Yeah. While you're working, used to maybe once a year just doing a review and reallocating or adjusting things, you may have missed the volatility that year because you looked at the end of the year and July was down 15%, but you never saw it because when you look at the end of the year, it's there.

Tony Hixon:

Yeah. And to your point, you never saw it because you were employed. So you're working, you're doing your job.

Josh Robb:

Don't need it.

Tony Hixon:

40 hours plus a week, and you're not focused on the markets. And oftentimes, what retirees do is find themselves with nothing but time. And so, they're checking the news, they're checking the Dow Jones averages, they're looking at their apps and they're finding that they're more fixated on the swings and the volatility in the markets because they have time to do that.

Austin Wilson:

Another thing that's interesting is when you are working, you're typically putting money into the market. That kind of mutes the impact of volatility. So, if the market goes down 10%, but you put a couple thousand dollars contribution in, you didn't go down that much. Portfolio value. So, you see less of those blips, and it allows you to do something that we love in this industry, and that's dollar-cost average.

You're putting money in and you're buying the dips and you're buying less when it's expensive and more when it's cheap. And it really smooths out that ride when you're putting money in. But things look a lot different mentally when you start pulling money out. And that brings us to our next topic, which is sequence of returns.

Josh Robb:

Yes.

[5:12] - What is Sequence of Returns Risk?

Austin Wilson:

And that matters a lot in the retirement world. So Josh, just explain what that means.

Josh Robb:

Yeah. This is where we can get a little deep into the statistics and numbers and the back end of retirement planning. But this is important to understand because sequence of return risk is the concept that when you start drawing from your portfolio, what happens to the market when you start drawing matters. In other words, if I retired in 2022, January 2022, and started drawing on my portfolio, I experienced down markets both in fixed income and in stocks and I'm drawing out of my portfolio, so I'm not adding any new money in, like you were talking about. I'm taking money out and I'm taking money out at a lower point.

And in fact, I saw the side-by-side comparison where they just inverted the returns so they had the same average return, so it's the same returns for a 20-year period, they just flip-flopped it and they had bad returns at the beginning, first three years, or bad returns at the end, the last three years, and they averaged like a 5% return when you put it all in. Started with a million dollars. The one that had three bad years at the front end ran out of money in the 19th year.

The other one ended with... I think it was like $600,000 still. Big difference. And you had the same average return, the exact same returns year by year, but just in a different order. And that's what sequence of return is, is how and when do you get your good years and bad years? If I get those at the tail end of my retirement, less of an impact than on the front end. So, how do you stop that? How do you protect from it? Those are some of the things we'll talk about coming up because that's something you can't control.

You may be able to go back to work or do things to offset, and that's one of the things you can do. But you don't know what's coming when you hit that retirement, right? Somebody who retired in 2007 didn't know 2008 and 2009 was showing up. And I'm sure there's people then that had to make some tough decisions to get back on track.

Austin Wilson:

One of the reasons that's so complicated for, especially those early years of retirement, is you think about pulling money out when markets are down and going down and continue to go down, which happens. Okay. We haven't felt that in a while. It's been a few years now, but markets do go down sometimes. And when you pull them out, that's great because you have to live on it. That's okay, we understand that. But those dollars that you pull out at a low basis don't have the opportunity to get back to where they were. And they will, the markets do heal. The markets do recover over time. Typically, it takes two or three years for that to happen, but those dollars could have been pulled back out when the markets are much higher. But you're taking away the opportunity for that, which is why it's so detrimental to your long-term returns.

Josh Robb:

Right. Because if it takes two to three years and you're taking four to 5% out, that's 15% of your portfolio. Because normal retirement, you count on some growth to offset that withdrawal, but if it's flat to down, you have taken out a fifth of your portfolio, potentially, in that short time period.

Austin Wilson:

It's not good.

Josh Robb:

Not good.

Tony Hixon:

You did say, Austin, that markets do heal.

Austin Wilson:

They do.

Josh Robb:

Yeah.

Tony Hixon:

But what I've often found is that retirees will say the four most dangerous words in our industry.

Austin Wilson:

This time is different.

Tony Hixon:

This time is different.

Austin Wilson:

This time is different.

Tony Hixon:

This time it won't recover.

Austin Wilson:

Right.

Tony Hixon:

This time it won't heal. But history would reveal, it always does.

Austin Wilson:

We have over 100 years of publicly traded stock return data and bond return data, for that matter, in the United States. And much longer if we go back outside the United States. And we know that it has happened, and sometimes it's been longer than two or three years.

Tony Hixon:

Sure. Yeah.

Austin Wilson:

But it has always happened, and we can sleep at night knowing that it will happen. And there are a lot of things we're going to talk about here, towards the end of the episode, of ways we can mitigate that risk a little bit. But right now, we need to be talking about, what are some things not to do? If we experience market value - afraid of it.

Josh Robb:

Here's advice not to take.

Austin Wilson:

Don't take this advice. This is not a recommendation.

Tony Hixon:

Listen to the disclaimers at the end.

[9:05] - What NOT To Do When You Experience Market Volatility Near Retirement

Austin Wilson:

So, what do you not do, Josh?

Josh Robb:

Well, the first thing would be to put all your money in crypto and say, "This is it. I'm going to get everything back. It's going to the moon." And all the other short phrases that young people say that I don't know.

Tony Hixon:

Over the last nine months that actually would've worked.

Josh Robb:

And that's the thing.

Tony Hixon:

That would've worked.

Josh Robb:

Recency bias. Cryptocurrency is a new... I don't know what you call it. It's not technically an investment.

Austin Wilson:

It's an asset.

Josh Robb:

Yeah. Speculation. And because it's new technology, there's been a lot of movement, and so it had a great run. There's no guarantee going forward, especially when you're unregulated, which is what crypto is right now. And so, that's something you should not do. And extrapolate that out, it's not just crypto, it's saying I need to take a lot more risk to catch back up. Again, that's not the answer. Taking a ton more risk is not the answer.

Austin Wilson:

I think when you're thinking about crypto specifically, because people talk about it and ask us about it all the time, is we don't have that 100-year history to understand how things work over long time periods. We have a very short history. We're talking 10, 15 years on a lot of these major... The major cryptocurrencies. That's not enough to know how market cycles work in crypto. So, that's a great example of maybe what not to do. Anyone else? What don't you do when you're afraid of volatility?

Josh Robb:

Go the other route.

Austin Wilson:

Okay.

Josh Robb:

I'm going to sell everything, buy gold, buy something.

Austin Wilson:

People love gold.

Josh Robb:

And bury it in my backyard, or put it in my safe, or whatever you do with it.

Tony Hixon:

Funny story.

Josh Robb:

Yes.

Tony Hixon:

I had a prospect cash out their 401(k) and put it into gold and bring it in their backyard.

Austin Wilson:

Yeah.

Josh Robb:

It happens.

Tony Hixon:

It happens. Yeah. When you get freaked out on what's going on in the market, gold tends to make its way through the financial commercials.

Josh Robb:

And why is that?

Tony Hixon:

Because it's the safe haven assets people. It's tangible.

Josh Robb:

It's always going to have value.

Tony Hixon:

There's value to it.

Josh Robb:

Limited. There's only a certain amount of gold in the world.

Tony Hixon:

But guess what I asked him when he told me that's what he was going to do? I said, "Draw a map. Draw a map."

Austin Wilson:

Yeah, that's right. That's a good point. X marks the spot.

Tony Hixon:

Get it to a family member because, ultimately, we're going to need to dig that up someday.

Austin Wilson:

That's another interesting asset class that has a unique history, and we actually don't have that long of a history where the dollar wasn't picked to gold. We're only going back to the 70s where we have a history where gold actually fluctuates majorly in price. We don't have 100-year history to draw on that. And if recent history has told us anything, gold is a bad inflation hedge anyway, and it just doesn't have any earnings and interest bearing properties. That's why we're typically not fans of it. Any other examples of what not to do?

Tony Hixon:

Well, I think a good one would be to just cash everything out and move into your kid's basement.

Josh Robb:

They'll take care of me. I take care of them

Tony Hixon:

Absolutely.

Austin Wilson:

That's right.

Tony Hixon:

We've been in business 23 years.I hope there's not a story where a client has had to do that.

Josh Robb:

I will say, not to that extreme, but the mindset of, someone else will take care of me, is out there.

Tony Hixon:

That's true.

Josh Robb:

And I think that's where that's at.

Tony Hixon:

We've done pretty well with avoiding that one.

Austin Wilson:

I'm sorry if my parents have to move into mine.

Josh Robb:

The idea, though, is that there's a safety net, which is true. There are some things built into our society, which is a good thing. But that's not the answer to this volatility of just, in a sense, ignoring it and not doing anything and just saying, someone else will take care of me, which I don't think is the best solution.

[12:34] - What SHOULD Pre-Retirees & Retirees Do Going into Retirement?

Austin Wilson:

We talked a little bit, jokingly, but a lot of that was real, about what not to do for volatility. What are things we should do? Let's talk about how we can adjust our portfolio to prepare it for retirement, ultimately. So, think about a couple of years going into retirement, maybe a couple of years starting retirement. What are some things we should do there?

Josh Robb:

Jordan, we do this a lot with clients, we recommend a strategy. But walk us through the last two years, maybe, before retirement, what we started doing with positioning clients.

Jordan Shaw:

Yeah. Well, it's something that you can start thinking about well before retirement, but the action points really start coming into effect right there in the last couple years before retirement. And it's not these huge transitions, like some people might think. Like, okay, I'm going to be extremely conservative, I'm going to put everything in cash or some fixed income investment. But it's understanding less about your asset allocation, more about, what are you willing to take on with the risk that you're going to... The changes in your mind and your mentality and your lifestyle that are going to present themselves when you're coming up on retirement, that fear that's going to come into play, and how does your portfolio compliment that and help answer some of those fears?

And that may mean, okay, we're going to be a little more conservative, so you don't see or feel those fluctuations, that volatility, as severely. But it's also the same thing that we've been doing all along, you have a long-term plan for your portfolio from day one. And assuming that's the case, you're going to be ready when that time comes.

Tony Hixon:

And even tactically, Josh, we employ a bear market fund.

Josh Robb:

Yes.

Tony Hixon:

You want to talk a little bit about how we do that for our clients?

Josh Robb:

For us, we title a bear market fund for the idea that bear markets happen for everybody, including retirees. They're going to experience two to three throughout the retirement years or more. And so, a bear market fund is just the idea that we know you're withdrawing out of the portfolio. We know that, regardless of what the market's doing, you do have income needs. So, if we have two to three years of your living expenses, the withdrawal needs, set aside in a less volatile... And again, volatility is both direction. So, you're giving up some returns, but you're also capping that downside return to the extent, versus your high volatile things. Putting two to three years of your needs aside gives you that ability to ride through those downturns.

So, the market drops and you say, "Oh, no. I have to take out of my portfolio." Well, I got two years that's not experienced the same level of volatility, I can live off of that and let the market recover. So now, I'm not drawing out of the down assets, I'm drawing out assets that have that less market movement. That's the way we've done it. If you're going to balance diversified portfolio, you probably already have that built in. We found carving it out and putting in its own account just helps you see it. It's just a visualization. You're in a 70-30, 60-40 allocation where you have stocks and bonds. That bonds is really that piece we're talking about.

Most people have this, but we found, psychologically, it really helps just to see it. Hey, that's two years that I could be indifferent to market movement. Two years where the stock market can do anything and it doesn't affect me and my lifestyle. So yeah, that's what we've done to practically imply that. And going back to that stability versus growth piece is that concept of I have to give up some of that upside volatility to protect the downside. You don't want to put 10 years in something like this because what you're going to do is limit your growth potential, which then limits what you can do in the future to combat inflation, which is the biggest thing retirees fight against out their whole life.

Austin Wilson:

Have you ever thought about how your financial choices reflect what truly matters to you? At Hixon Zuercher Capital Management, we believe that integrating your values and dreams with your financial future is key to achieving peace of mind and confidence. When you engage in deep conversations with us, you'll start to see how your money can support the things that matter the most in your life. Our holistic approach means that your financial plan is more than just numbers, it's a personalized blueprint that evolves with you.

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So Josh, I'm going to tee you up here.

Josh Robb:

Okay.

[16:58] - How Much Cash Should Retirees Have on Hand?

Austin Wilson:

How much cash should retirees have on hand?

Josh Robb:

The answer is it depends.

Austin Wilson:

Oh, man. I should've seen that one coming.

Josh Robb:

The truth is it's different for everyone. But what I always say is, how much do you need to sleep at night and not wake up in a panic? That's the answer. And everybody's different. There's some that say, I need a year's worth, or I need X amount. Some just say, if I just have enough that... A couple months, I'm good. And some just say, I don't really need anything, you're sending me my check, I'm good to go. Cash, to a lot of people, is that peace of mind. It's not doing anything right now, it doesn't go up or down, it just sits there. So, I know I don't have to stress during that timeframe. And it's different for everybody.

Austin Wilson:

I would say, as a word of caution, cash isn't an investment.

Josh Robb:

Yeah. So, not 50%.

Austin Wilson:

Yeah. There are levels where it gets... It's going to, obviously, have very, very little return over any time period, but especially over a long term. And it will be eroded by inflation.

Josh Robb:

It doesn't keep up with inflation.

Austin Wilson:

That's the key word there. So, to the point that you can have enough cash or cash really conservative bond investments to sleep at night. But also, keep as much invested in growth oriented or your equity side of things, longterm thinking, that's really where the balance is. But let's change gears just a little bit and talk about withdrawals. Obviously, you're gearing up for retirement, you spend a lot of your life putting money into investments.

You flip a switch, you're retired and you need to start living on those. Withdrawal strategy is, obviously, a very huge component of a retiree's success or failure ultimately with their financial plan. So, how can a well-planned financial plan incorporate a successful withdrawal strategy?

Josh Robb:

Yeah. And it comes to couple things, and we've talked about this in other podcasts before, is it needs to be sustainable. Your withdrawal rate really matters. How much you take out is a big piece. And I know, Tony, for you and I, as we worked with clients, that starting point matters. Because every client's like, "Well, I'll enjoy it now and then I'll cut spending later." And we've seen and we know that's a hard thing to do. Some people do it.

Tony Hixon:

And oftentimes they increase it.

Josh Robb:

Yes.

Tony Hixon:

They don't cut.

Josh Robb:

Starting point matters. What you're starting withdrawal rate is. But then, having a strategy of how and when you fund it is important. I know you and I have done different things with different clients. You want to explain maybe one or two of those that may resonate with people on a process to generate that?

Tony Hixon:

Yeah. The one that comes to mind is... Hopefully it doesn't make it too complex, but it's basically an endowment concept where we take a rolling average of balances over the past 12 quarters, that smooths out volatility, that's three years of returns and we're able to overlay then a withdrawal rate that the portfolio would be able to sustain. And what it does is it's not a static number then, because the way that portfolio values fluctuate, that number may be lower one year or higher the next. But what it does is it helps a retiree really keep their withdrawal percentage in check and ensure that they don't overspend in that timeframe.

Josh Robb:

Yeah. And like you said, it's an endowment concept. This is what foundations, endowments, channel organizations that say, "I have a lump sum that I would like to last forever. How much can it take out a long time without depleting?"

Tony Hixon:

And it's really good for clients who really want to leave that legacy to the next generation or to a charitable organization. It doesn't work for everybody. Some people want to spend to zero and that's a whole nother-

Josh Robb:

Or they can't, their withdrawal rate needs to be higher than what's sustainable.

Tony Hixon:

Correct.

[20:38] - The Ideal Withdrawal Strategy

Josh Robb:

Yeah. So, that's one way. Jordan, what's another way from a withdrawal strategy that we've utilized or that you've seen done, that they track or know how to fund that for them?

Jordan Shaw:

Something that helps set expectations for clients. Once you determine a good rate, whatever that is for the portfolio, there is an approach, a guardrails approach where you track that each year. And looking back, you see, okay, did that line up with the average rate that we're trying to stick to? And if you're under or over, depending on the returns in the market, you can see and you can model forward to how that's going to impact your retirement.

And I think the key there is just setting that expectation with a client so that they know, when they're calling in or when they're meeting with us, they pretty much know what we're going to say regarding their spending because they have that number down and they may or may not know what they're pulling out. But it's usually a lot easier of a conversation when we're making those preparations ahead of time.

Josh Robb:

And the next two pieces that we'll talk about, which is sticking to a plan on withdrawal strategy, and then being tax aware of where and how you pull the money is also kind of... We don't always know the answer at the beginning of the year, what the best time of withdrawal is. But if you have a good run in the market and July and you're hitting all-time highs, you may say, "Hey, let's fund some future months worth while the markets are good to avoid that idea of taking money out when they're down."

So, a lot of times having a plan on, I know what I need, but I'm flexible on how and when I fund it. So, you're still sticking to the plan of withdrawal strategy, but then you add on top of it just strategically saying, now's the time I'm going to fund that. I'm going to hold that cash and be using it for the rest of the year, or two years or whatever you're funding. And then, tax efficiency is, where do I get that money?

Tony Hixon:

Yeah. It's almost like for tax-efficient withdrawals, you need to chat with a financial advisor.

Josh Robb:

Or an account, or somebody who understands that concept.

Tony Hixon:

It's complex. It's probably beyond what we can explain today. But there is definitely an order of withdrawals that it's the most tax efficient.

Josh Robb:

Or combining different types of accounts in a year so that your different income types are within your acceptable range of taxes.

Austin Wilson:

Let's just get our minds around the fact that we know volatility will happen. It's inevitable. What are just a couple things, off the top of your head, that retirees should do and what should not do? Anything real quick?

Josh Robb:

Well, I'll say when you see the market drop, having a conversation with somebody. Because your fears in your head, you can build up and compound on top, oh no, this is happening. I'm going to have to do this and this. Just verbalizing it sometimes helps you work through it yourself. And so, there's been times we've taken phone calls and a client really doesn't want to do anything. They just need to talk it out, right? Be a good listener, hear it out.

So, if you just have somebody you trust to have that conversation, say, "You know what? This is what I'm feeling right now. Let's just work this out." And just talk it through. And then, along with that, don't make any rash decisions. Don't let your emotion drive that decision. Give it a little time, think it through. Give it a break. Come back to it.

Tony Hixon:

Yeah. Sorry to interrupt. But yeah, the should do and should not do. The should do is stay calm, stay invested. Should not do is check your portfolio daily. I have a client who is really prone to checking their portfolio daily, especially in downward volatile times. He wants to know how much his portfolio is down, and I've trained him over years to stop it. And I broke through. And so, the last bear market we had in 2022, he didn't look at his app, but he would call me and say, "Can I look today?" "No. Not today." And then, he'd call another month or two later, "Can I look today?" "Not yet." It was a period of over a year before I was able to say, "Yeah. You can go ahead and look now." The market did heal, it did recover, and we're fine.

[24:30] - Why Having a Financial Advisors Is So Important

Austin Wilson:

I think what the whole discussion highlights is the importance of having someone in your corner. This is why working with a financial advisor is so important, because they have the experience, they have their credentials, they have years of bear markets. Unfortunately, everyone has years of bear markets under their belt. And they have put together a plan that will weather the next and the next and bear market.

And if you don't have a plan, you're going to freak out, you're going to get emotional, you're going to sell at the bottom, and you're going to sit on cash when it recovers. And you're going to do all the stupid things we said not to do. But if you have a plan, you should have some peace. And that piece is something that we're passionate about here at Hixon Zuercher Capital Management. Yeah. Any final thoughts, I guess, as we wrap up the discussion on volatility?

Josh Robb:

Well, you also need to understand, as you're heading into the retirement, you may have, all the way up to that point, said, "I'm good. Market volatility doesn't bother me." There is a mindset shift. So, you have to prepare yourself for that because you could be prone to make a decision thinking, it doesn't affect me. And then, when it does, if you're not prepared for it, you could be more apt to respond to a bad decision. So, acknowledge that volatility does affect everyone, especially retirees in a different way. And that's the key.

Jordan Shaw:

Even more practical too, you need something to do besides. You need something to do in place of watching the market. We talk about having these long-term plans, on a day-to-day plan, during a down market, wake up, get your coffee, put your golf pants on, watch your grass grow, do something else. Yeah. That can actually be beneficial for your mental health and your portfolio.

Tony Hixon:

Stay calm, stay invested, trust your advisor.

Josh Robb:

That's right.

Austin Wilson:

Love it. I love it. All right. Well, if you guys found value in our conversation, don't forget to subscribe to The Wealth Mindset Show on whatever platform you're on. That way you never miss an episode, and we launch them all the time. So, you're not going to want to miss those. Also, feel free to visit us at thewealthmindsetshow.com for more resources. Or if you're ready to invest with us, head over to hzcapital.com, we have a fantastic team of advisors ready and eager to help you meet your financial goals and to steward your wealth over time. We'd also invite you to follow us on social media and stay connected. And otherwise, stay connected, stay invested, and we'll talk to you next episode. Have a good one.

Josh Robb:

Bye.

Tony Hixon:

Bye.

Jordan Shaw:

Bye.

Thank you for joining us at The Wealth Mindset Show, where we tackle the complexities of finance and life planning to help you align your wealth with your values. We hope today's conversation provided value and clarity as you navigate your financial journey.

Your hosts work for Hixon Zuercher Capital Management, and all opinions expressed by them, or any podcast guest, are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of Hixon Zuercher Capital Management. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon for investment decisions. Clients of Hixon Zuercher Capital Management may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast.

There is no guarantee that statements, opinions or forecasts provided herein will prove to be correct. Past performance may not be indicative of future results. Indices are not available for direct investment. And any investor attempting to mimic index performance would incur fees and expenses that could reduce returns. Securities investing involves risks including the potential loss of principle, and there is no assurance that any investment plan or strategy will be successful.